My dad has condemned any sort of fun in a car.

"CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)" (ccpbb) 12/10/2013 at 00:49 • Filed to: RANT

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My dad's ideal car for me is a something FWD, and won't go fast. I wanted to explain what drifting was. I showed him a portion of the FRS commercial which had Ken Gushi lovingly drifting down Mount Diablo (one of the best roads around the bay area). He said he would not let me get a license if I were to go drifting. My dad's lost what defines fun in a car. He's lost what the rush of acceleration feels like. I wanted him to get a 2006 Impreza WRX. He didn't like it because it was too small and the price/mileage ratio didn't match up to a Toyota. My mom got into a fender bender in her terrible Matrix, and supposedly she doesn't like small cars. For christs sake, my dad doesn't even like the idea of a 6 second 0-60 time! He expects me to get something around 10. He corners slowly. I want him to get a car that's fun and practical, or with decent horsepower. And he said 200 horsepower is already enough for a car. His point was not defeated by me but one of his friends. And so hypocritical when the 1999 Infiniti QX4 is just as slow with a horrid 10 second 0-60. I plan to get a Miata over this summer (because it's cheap as hell and it's a Miata). What should I do? I think he wont be impressed with my Jalopshift Drifting Volvo sweatshirt....

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 00:51

5

Golf GTI, Jetta GLI, Civic Si Hatch, basically get an FF hot hatch to dissuade him. "Oh, its just a nice front wheel drive htachback!" meanwhile you're planning some nice spring/shock upgrades and have a new ECU and camshaft(s) on the way.

Kailand09 > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 00:54

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Definitely do a sleeper. Civic Si is a fun car I'll be honest, so is the RSX type S. I've been in both, both FWD, and neither are actually super fast.

Those aren't really sleepers though. I'm sure someone can recommend sleepers, but that's the route I'd go.

Mazda 3 isn't bad, speed3 is sweet and can appear to be an econobox.

JustWaitingForAMate > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 00:55

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I may have this wrong but, drifting on a public road? No, I wouldn't let you have a licence either.

E30Joe drives a Subaru > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 00:56

2

My dad asked why I needed 400 horsepower to do the speed limit. I LOL'd.

Save up for your own car, suck it up with a crappy one for awhile. I did and actually grew to like it, 2003 Honda Odyssey...

D > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 00:56

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The trick is... if you want to go drifting, don't tell yer folks

Jeff-God-of-Biscuits > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 00:58

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Try using his fear to your advantage. Remember, 90% of good driving is the nut behind the steering wheel. See if you can get him to spring for some advanced car control or defensive driving classes. They will do a tremendous amount of good in instilling proper car control techniques, as well as giving you the chance to experience what it feels like to have a car start sliding or reacting to an emergency avoidance maneuver. And you get to see what all that is like in a supervised environment designed to keep you safe while you learn. Knowledge will do far more for you than horsepower, young Jedi.

Reigntastic > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 01:00

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Miatas are slow, it's a great first car for you.

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > JustWaitingForAMate 12/10/2013 at 01:00

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On a closed course. AKA not on a public road.

JustWaitingForAMate > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 01:01

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Disregard then. What parents don't know won't hurt them.

Jayhawk Jake > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 01:03

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First of all, I guarantee your dad means well.

Now, if you think that RWD and drifting and going fast are the only ways to have fun in a car, you're just crazy. Besides, if it's your first car who cares what it is, you have plenty of time to go drifting later. Get something fun that meets your dad's requirements and deal with it. Be safe, be glad that you can drive at all, and save money to buy your drift machine when you move out

Joe_Limon > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 01:03

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If you live somewhere where it snows, the practicality of having an awd car far outweighs the fuel savings of a fwd car.
Further, if 200hp is enough in a car, then the frs/brz twins are perfect.

If it is an issue regarding value, brand new economy cars are a stupid choice, they shall devalue far faster then an equivalently priced used higher end vehicle.

The best course of action? Try aiming for something like a used Legacy. To please both the monetary and safety worries.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 01:05

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Also, if you are demanding that your first car be your dream car, then you don't deserve one. Yes, your first car might be a pile of manure. Learn how to love a car by loving a pile of shit. You're not going to learn anything by just being handed what you like. Search out some hot hatches and just say their base model such as "Hey I found a nice Golf" or "Look at this nice toyota matrix" where you're really looking at a GTI and a Matrix XR.

Oh and sell him on a stick shift with the following - it is a distracted driving deterrant.

Biased Plies > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 01:06

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You can have plenty of in pretty much any kind of car. Be thankful for what you have/get and enjoy that.

Jeff-God-of-Biscuits > Jeff-God-of-Biscuits 12/10/2013 at 01:15

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Above all, the biggest thing to remember here is that your father enjoys the fact that you have a pulse and working limbs. The "Superman Syndrome" in a proven fact, and until experience comes along to match your ability to the limits of a vehicle, he is just trying to make sure you stay the way he likes you.

beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 01:17

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I understand where he's coming from, no parent likes the idea of their kid risking harm to themselves or others.

it's also a right-of-passage as a driver to start off in a shitbox that isn't very fast. God I miss my old Toyota Corona sometimes, even if it was held together with zip ties and garden hose.

SonorousSpeedJoe > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 01:18

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If it's to be FF and relatively slow, then I agree with what others have posted; Hondas like the Civic, VWs like the Golf/GTI, and other low-key cars are your best option here. Learn to have fun in an FF car, left-foot braking and all. Try to see if you can sign up for an accident avoidance course with rigged cars to get your slip 'n' slide fix and maybe lower your insurance rates.

If you can get your dad to shell out for premium (since he seems to be footing all the bills here), an out-of-left-field choice would be a Toyota Corolla/Matrix XRS. I DD'd a 2005 Matrix XR FWD in high school, so I know the 138 HP and 4-speed auto make for a boring powertrain, but the 6-speed manual and 180 HP motor in the XRS would have been fine with me and certainly better than the 2012 Focus (5-speed manual and 160 HP) that I drive now. You can deal with the noise and the ride in the Matrix.

Anon > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 01:18

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200 horse power! My god are you going to leMans! (Looks at my 110 hp Mini Cooper)

daender > Reigntastic 12/10/2013 at 01:29

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Just don't expect any luggage space.

/NB as first car

Ian Duer (320b) > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 01:31

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You are lucky to have even the illusion of a choice. My first vehicle was a FWD minivan. Now that I have the "grouchy old man rant" out of my system. I'll give you some real advice. Drifting looks fun, and it is but I consider nailing a perfect heel-toe downshift and rocketing out of a turn just on the limit (rather than over it) to be just as much if not more fun. The car I really learned to drive in (rather than merely operate,) had about 110hp and was fwd. It only weighed 2600lbs which is a lightweight by today's standards and it was quite enough to get the fundamentals down. Underpowered/boring cars are the best thing to learn in as long as they have some degree of handling prowess, you'll learn tonnes about conserving momentum in the twisties. In addition learning to manipulate the tendencies between lift-throttle-oversteer and power-on-undeersteer has saved my bacon more times than I can count, when driving borrowed/rental cars (which are likely to be FWD) and unexpected things like a greasy road surface on a downhill-decreasing-radius turn pop up. In my experience starting out with a car that's "too-good" will stunt your skills as a driver. I base this on people I've known. A car is just a machine. You are its pilot. It can't fly if you don't know how to make it fly. Good luck and don't be stupid on the road. Life is not a video game. Accidents are expensive and can injure or kill you. There is no reloading from the last save. Protip: if something you are about to do would be prefaced with "hey watch this" it's a bad idea.

Hindered23 > JustWaitingForAMate 12/10/2013 at 01:40

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you don't approve of Industrial road snow drifting when nobody's around and you have decent visibility?

JustWaitingForAMate > Hindered23 12/10/2013 at 01:51

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On a private road or closed off course? Sure. On a public road? Never.

Hindered23 > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 01:53

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see if he's open to a deal like my dad was. I drove the car handed down to me, which wasn't bad at all really. 2001 Lexus gs300 (I got subs cuz I'm a young whippersnapper) was my first. a year of safe driving and no accidents where I was at fault and we could talk about upgrading as my sister was going to get the Lexus. I did get t-boned by a 16 year old girl who pulled a u-turn right into me. over the summers of junior year and through senior year I worked and I paid half of what the monthly cost would be if we had leased the car we bought. I got to choose from about the price of a new focus. it worked out great. I got an 05 Audi s4 and put an exhaust and ecu on it. the thing was gymkhana in the snow. still my favorite sounding v8 to this day. good luck bud!

Hindered23 > JustWaitingForAMate 12/10/2013 at 01:54

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well I'm a reckless lawbreaker I guess. I hooned the crap out of the empty roads off of 8 mile in the snow in my Quattro snow monster.

Ian @ Jewel or Jalopy > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 01:56

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Are you buying, or are your parents? If they are, you can guide the decision, but they get final approval. If you still live at home, same thing goes.

Be happy you get a car period. Trust me, wheels beats no wheels any day.

So now the trick is to convince them to let you get something fun. Notice I didn't say fast. Focus on fun, and then start learning how to drive.

A Volvo 240 with a stickshift would be an awesome car to learn on. Learn proper shifting. Learn RWD car control. Learn to find the limits at a safe speed , but preferably on a track. Take it autocrossing.

And for god sake stop telling your parents you want to drive fast and learn to drift. Even if your parents are as cool as me I don't want to hear my kids say that. I want to hear them say that they really want to learn to be goo ddrivers, and want to take extra classes to teach them.

Work on your pitch. Find a fun, cheap car (Focus, Mazda, Civic, Corlolla, etc) and go learn.

JustWaitingForAMate > Hindered23 12/10/2013 at 02:00

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You probably broke some laws, so I guess you are.

Luken10 > D 12/10/2013 at 02:00

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Yeah, that wasn't the smartest idea. Most sane parents are in the business of preserving their offspring. Hooning on some backroads isn't exactly the safest thing to do by any means.

Hindered23 > JustWaitingForAMate 12/10/2013 at 02:02

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I accept this title.

Where have all the lightweights gone? > Ian @ Jewel or Jalopy 12/10/2013 at 02:11

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This is a very well thought out point. I saw way too many people I know get into a lot of trouble with cars that had too much power for their lack of driving experience. I knew people that crashed many a Mustang/Camaro, and a couple of people close to my age died in car crashes due to their ignorance.

The best thing you can do is talk up the upside about additional driving courses both in accident avoidance and car control. Tout the safety reasons for doing so and talk up how it's required training in other countries. You can then turn this into a hobby you and your dad can do together by autocrossing together. My friend and her dad did this for a long time, and she credits that experience to saving her ass in a couple of hairy situations on the road.

We all want the instant gratification of our dream rides and going balls to the wall. Learn to have some patience—start with something slower, learn the basics as much as you can, and move up when you're fully in control of the buying decision.

promoted by the color red > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 02:24

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Acura Integra LS sedan.

Fun? Hell yes. And you can make it more fun for pennies on the dollar. 15" wheels = cheap sticky rubber. You don't need to touch the engine: 140HP is more than plenty to get into trouble.

Practical? Hell yes. Four doors = sleeper, reduced theft, and cheaper insurance.

Cheap? Fuck yeah. No GS-R tax.

offroadkarter > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 02:39

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You're literally doing this all wrong. Your parents are obviously car retarded, so this is something you could use to your advantage. I doubt they'll let you get a miata since they'll think "sporty = fast" even though miatas are slow as all hell.

You never tell them what you want to do

You never tell them whats in a car as far as performance

When I was looking for a first car I wanted to get a 03-04 cobra, but my dad wouldn't let me because it was a manual and it was 390hp. So when I pitched the idea of the marauder I didn't mention that it had a 302hp V8, I just mentioned that it was a 4dr sedan with a 5 star front/rear crash rating.

6+ years later it now makes 436rwhp and is just shy of 11 sec 1/4 mile times.

NinetyQ > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 02:42

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As someone who was "condemned" to this reality with my first car, let me just say this: it's not as bad as it seems.

You're young and you're into cars, so of course you want something fast, drifty, exciting, etc. I don't know what your skill level or financial situation is, but I'm going to assume you're like most of us at that age: none and almost none.

My first car was a '96 Pontiac Grand Prix SE. 160 horsepower, FWD, 10 years old at the time. Not the greatest car around, but it was mine. It made some great noises, looked sorta cool (it was the coupe version), felt fast at the time, and drove acceptably well. I loved that car.

Later I got my 1991 Audi 90 Quattro 20V, which was supposed to be my fun, sporty, all-around-awesome car. And it is pretty cool, but guess what. I like the Grand Prix better. I'm not supposed to by Jalop standards, but that GP was always just more fun to drive somehow. It wasn't as harsh on the road, felt more predictable, and the automatic transmission was actually... just easy. Okay, in that sense maybe I'm just lazy.

But actually, I own both cars simultaneously, so I frequently switch back and forth between them from day to day, and it's the Grand Prix that I gravitate towards despite the Audi's higher-revving, epic-sounding, rally-bred DOHC 5-cylinder mated to a 5-speed manual, with Quattro AWD. I just feel at home in the Grand Prix. Probably because I owned it for several years before I acquired the Audi, but still.

The moral of the story is: don't get too caught up in getting what you think you want. You probably don't want a QX4, but find a compromise, and learn to love it. You'll have fun behind the wheel regardless of how it handles. And if you're ~16 with little driving experience, you don't need to be drifting on dry pavement anyway unless you're on a track. Save it for snowy parking lots in whatever under-performing vehicle you end up with. Embrace it.

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > Jayhawk Jake 12/10/2013 at 03:13

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I'll have to agree on your point.

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > SonorousSpeedJoe 12/10/2013 at 03:18

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The old lady who slammed on the front right quarter bent the chassis. My parents chose a lump sum over fixing it.

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 12/10/2013 at 03:19

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I understand your point. Ironically, both my parents are adept and skilled stick shift drivers.

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > Jeff-God-of-Biscuits 12/10/2013 at 03:21

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I'll take this to heart.

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > Luken10 12/10/2013 at 03:24

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I'll stick to cyclocross racing in the future.

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > Reigntastic 12/10/2013 at 03:27

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I can find a cheap one for around 1500. A eBay selling from garage sale stuff in a entire summer should be able to wrap up the cost and defintely a summer job.

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > Ian Duer (320b) 12/10/2013 at 03:29

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I have to admit. Responsibility is key and a too-good of a car can wait until later.

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > Hindered23 12/10/2013 at 03:29

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Thanks.

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > Anon 12/10/2013 at 03:30

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I may be doing LeMons with a few friends later in life.

TillTheWheelsFallOff: Brocoma > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 03:31

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I'm young, a little older than you. I've lived with three cars in my life. A Lancer, Coyote Mustang, and now my truck.

My father bought the lancer as a birthday gift to my brother. It had a <200hp engine, four doors, an obnoxious wing and it was fun as hell. My brother and I did some stupid shit to that poor car. I don't personally consider it my first car, but it taught me to appreciate what I had. It was fun and practical.

Then came the Mustang. Another lesson well learned with this car. Respect the beast or it will try to kill you. I'll leave it at that.

Now the truck. I love my truck because I love the other two vehicles. The lancer taught me that practicality and fun were important things and the mustang taught me that if you do not respect, understand, and care for your vehicle you do not deserve it. Maybe that's what your father is trying to teach you. Owning a vehicle is different than just wanting one.

Also, don't lie to your father about your motives. Your parents are not stupid, they know you too well; you're not clever.

Sorry if you think I'm a dick or whatever, but I tell it like it is, from one youngin to another.

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > TillTheWheelsFallOff: Brocoma 12/10/2013 at 03:32

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I'm not offended one bit. I appreciate the feedback and I'll take it to heart.

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > Ian @ Jewel or Jalopy 12/10/2013 at 03:34

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Sure, and I'll be learning on a old but peppy Toyota Tacoma that has a stick. But for auto, a Sienna.

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > Where have all the lightweights gone? 12/10/2013 at 03:35

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It's like what another opponaut said, it's a rite of passage. A minivan or sedan from a parent, then a bit better when you have a steady income.

SonorousSpeedJoe > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 03:36

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I meant that if you were to get another Matrix, like the XRS that I mentioned.

Like I said, I found the regular Matrix boring and didn't like having to drive a car with a scraped front bumper and Walmart DUBcaps on one side, but it was otherwise bearable IMO. The XRS gets you a 6-speed manual, 180 HP, a 9k redline and rear disc brakes, so it's worth a look if premium fuel is okay with your folks.

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > Joe_Limon 12/10/2013 at 03:37

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I'm in the SF Bay Area, so AWD is basically useless. Cars devalue make the next owner happier.

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > Biased Plies 12/10/2013 at 03:37

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No problem,I'll take that to heart.

lepie > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 03:41

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How old are you?

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > SonorousSpeedJoe 12/10/2013 at 03:46

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Well, unlike the Corolla, the Matrix came standard with disc brakes. It was the base my parents had. My dad racked up 30k miles on the first year. But if I ever get anything in the future around that price range, I'd rather place my bets on a Fiesta ST than a Matrix XRS. At least the Fiesta has a tuned suspension, and the XRS, which I am not sure at all. But the Matrix did come with standard buckets. And it didn't have the corolla interior. The stock was a 130 ish.

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > lepie 12/10/2013 at 03:48

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Nearly 16.

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 03:48

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One of the more...high school opponauts.

lepie > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 03:50

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Then i sort of agree with your dad (no offense, not trying to be rude). He means well.

OTOH you could go rally in the weekends ...

DancesWithRotors - Driving Insightfully > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 05:07

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First car, B13 Sentra, 4-door model.

Here's why: Good fuel economy, very rugged (They're used as taxis in Mexico, if that's any indication), independent rear suspension (unlike the later Sentras), fairly sharp handling, cheap handling upgrades, cheap brake upgrades.... (Notice a trend here: Handling > power...)

Finally, if you /really/ want more power after doing all the handling upgrades you can, an SR20 will bolt right in (with the SE-R engine mounts...)

The Millennial Falcon > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 06:19

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Don't give him too hard of a time. If you're 16, you most likely won't be insurable in anything else. Wouldn't it be worth it to wait a couple years when you've got the driving chops to handle such performance vehicles, and so that you aren't paying more on the insurance note monthly than on the car? Handling a car on the road is more about awareness and dealing with other drivers on the road than just pure slow-in-fast-out cornering and oversteer. In fact, doing any of the things we associate with "spirited driving" is downright dickish and dangerous in most everyday commuting situations. The mark of a truly good driver isn't just perfectly apexed turns and impossible drift angles. A good driver knows when it's time for those, and when it's time to give the soccer mom in the Tahoe some clearance &/or move left & pass because she chops the brakes at every upcoming exit out of panic and could implicate you in quite the accident. I've only a few years on you, but I started out with similar restrictions. Hell, I was *just* allowed to get a 5spd honda after 3 years of driving. When it's my insurance, my payments, and my registration, I can feel free to argue, but right now it isn't. Master the rules of the road and defensive driving, maybe grab a weekend job, consider some entrepreneurial snow shoveling this winter, but don't give your dad a rough time. Those 3 things demonstrate more responsibility and readiness for a non-beige car than giving him grief for trying to keep you in one piece while you learn.

d1ck > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 07:21

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If the car will be yours to own, and your parents are buying it; it should be a total POS. My first car was a rusted out 1996 Buick Regal. I tortured that car in any manner I could find. That's the best part about having a beater for a first car.

I once went up some trail and the car just stopped for no apparent reason, so I got out for a look to see what happened. Turns out I had somehow gotten a basketball sized rock lodged in the wheel well on top of the tire. After some messing around and swearing, I had to jack up the car and remove the wheel to get the rock out. I'm still puzzled as to how the rock worked it's way up there.

Corey CC97, MAZDA DPI IS STILL BAE JOESTACTIV JOESTACTIV JOESTACTIV JOESTACTIV VISIT FLORIDA RACING LIVES FOREVER IN OUR HEARTS > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 07:23

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My dad was weird like that when I was getting my car. He said I wasn't getting a hot rod, then nearly takes me out to look at a 2006 Audi S4. Against the want, I had to talk him out of it.

Grindintosecond > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 08:17

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Volvo 240...better yet 242. Rwd but so so safe and 109hp so he can't argue about that. It was enough for a cop to directly threaten me with "straight to jail" from all the phone calls they got but had no proof of my actions. I did not need 200hp to enjoy everything.

Mistake #1: showing dad drift film from a public road and saying that's fun and enjoyable. He sees you wrapping it around a tree and a midnight phonecall.

For every good drift video there's 1, 000 dedtroyed cars and kids with nuts insurance and revoked licenses. I'm not raining on your parade but if you want to go out and hoon and enjoy it, never ever tell the parents especially if they are funding your ride.

davedave1111 > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 08:42

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I think you need to consider that this is an area where your dad does indeed know best, given that you're still young enough not to have started driving yet. He quite rightly couldn't care less if you have fun in your car; he wants you to be safe.

Slow car fast is more fun anyway, but especially for a new driver the absolute last thing you need is a sporty car. You're already pretty much guaranteed to be hooning, because you only just got the car, and it's absolutely guaranteed that you won't have the experience to be able to drive safely even if you're not hooning. Seriously, a (Jalop) new driver would hoon a Prius. Having something fast and/or sporty is a recipe for trouble.

What you get yourself in a few years time is another matter, but for now you should listen to your dad - that is, really listen, and work out what he's actually concerned about. If you get a job and buy yourself a car, that's your business - but I'd still listen to your dad, if I were you.

By the way, 0-60 in ten seconds is not slow. The first car I had did it in a hair under 15 seconds, which is slow. And it was still great fun to drive.

NoahthePorscheGuy > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 09:18

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Sounds like my dad. He had 200 hp limit and my mom said it needed to be safe. The result? Fiesta ST.

jsmizira > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 10:01

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get an e30 with the four cylinder. German (good and safe), four cylinder (like a reliable economical toyota), and old (low insurance cost (but for the love of all that is holy DONT WRECK IT!))

Things not to say to your parents about the car:

1. rear wheel drift machine!

2. really easy and cheap to turbo.

3. really really fun to drive

4. decently fast stock vehicle.

when you have aquired E30 take a teen drivers course on a track with your dad. and have him listen to the instructor as well.

André - Volvo4Life > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 10:24

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200HP RWD for a 16 year old?

I am sorry but we have all been there, nothing can make up for experience behind a wheel, and your first car should be something you can handle.

And don't tell me "I can handle it", you can't know 100% for sure until you have been there, your dad is just trying to protect you. Don't worry, and trust me we have all been there, the fun cars will come eventually, as well as your parent's trust.

Goshen, formerly Darkcode > offroadkarter 12/10/2013 at 10:44

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Wait, wait...the Marauder is your first car?

Inflame333 > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 10:50

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Bummer

Makoyouidiot > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 11:16

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I'd recommend a Mazda3 or Mazda2. Slowish, fwd, fun, practical, economical, and even the autoboxes are good. Also Mazda is right up there with Toyota and Honda on reliability. Everything your dad wants, and a good jalopponaut ride to boot. I love mine. Then, like others have said, take some advanced driving courses, go to track days, autox, and such. Take your old man along and show him responsible hooning.

RiggedPuzzle > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 11:31

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If you need more than 100hp per 1000kg or so to drive fast you're doing it wrong.

gc8foreva > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 11:39

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He's just worried about you. At this age, your insurance is already exorbitant, and a car like the FR-S/BRZ is going to cost quite a pretty penny. That may already be factoring into his decision. If it's not your money, just settle for a good solid reliable car. You'll have plenty of time to save up and buy your own vehicle in time. Meanwhile, just learn how to maintain and take care of your own vehicle first, and learn the basics of hooning. 5 speed Hondas are a perfect fit, since they can take a beating and are still pretty fun. Although, if you can convince him to buy a Miata, Miata is always the answer.

SonorousSpeedJoe > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 12:39

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Must've been a pretty late model, then - the 2005 I drove had standard rear drums.

I should clarify that I'm not talking about buying a new car - I'm pretty sure you can get a first-gen XRS (not a second-gen, which just uses a Camry 4-cyl IIRC) for around $10k or less, which is significantly cheaper than a new Fiesta ST. It's just an option that I feel works given your parents' rules and what I think they're willing to spend, even if a Fiesta ST is far superior in every measure except interior space.

A3R0 > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 12:43

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Saab?!

911e46z06 > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 16:33

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Rule number one: when trying to get parents to buy you a car, never express any interest in drifting.

Try for an e30. Miata will scare him because it's too small. Everyone thinks BMWs are built like tanks, so he'll like that. Show him how easy it is to work on and that it gets good gas mileage. You need you some sneaky fast.

Buran > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 19:39

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You're sixteen years old and have little experience behind the wheel. It's understandable to want to have some fun, but your dad is trying to make sure you don't get hurt. Or anyone else who might happen to be on or near the road near you.

Drive your FWD car and learn how to drive it properly. Talk to your dad about taking some driver education courses, the sort where instructors teach you how to do emergency defensive maneuvers in a safe environment. Learn how FWD cars handle — do they oversteer? understeer? When? Why? PRACTICE emergency stopping in a safe place (an empty parking lot, for example).

Learn how to perform basic maintenance on your own — know how to check fluid levels, how to check oil level (do this every other fillup at least), how to make sure you have enough coolant and washer fluid, how to change all bulbs. Get an AAA membership if your car doesn't have a roadside assistance program, and know what your tow coverage is.

Do not use a cell phone when driving. Ever. (But do keep a cheap throwaway in the glove box for emergency use only if you don't normally carry one). If you have friends in the car with you, be responsible — as the driver, you can get them killed if you make a mistake. Know what the laws are for teenage/new drivers in your area — you likely have a graduated license. Know what the limitations of it are and obey them strictly. NEVER drink and drive. ALWAYS wear your seat belt and make sure that any passengers do, too. I never let the car move if there's anyone who's not belted in. You shouldn't, either. Be a good example. If someone refuses, calmly explain that you are not going to be responsible for their getting hurt. It only takes two seconds to buckle up.

Once you feel you have mastered all of this, and have a lot of practice time in, THEN you can consider a "more fun" car.

Driving is not a game. You seem to think it is one. You show, just by that attitude, why you aren't ready for the car you want.

Reigntastic > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 12/10/2013 at 20:00

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No doubt. Make sure it's a manual, and you'll be set. Otherwise, make sure you get it inspected.

offroadkarter > Goshen, formerly Darkcode 12/10/2013 at 20:38

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yeah

Conan > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 01/23/2014 at 20:19

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Talk to him about autocross as something you can do together so you can learn driving safety.

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > Conan 01/23/2014 at 20:23

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I'll definitely do. He'll probably approve of it (slow and safe) but autocross definitively improves anyone's driving techniques and especially, safety.